My conjoined reply to several blogs was too big to fit in the comments section. So here it is:
Jonathan, let’s not jump on every little tidbit you think you can glean a bit of triumph out of… it’s one thing to win the battle (tiny, I might add), and one thing to win the war. I only mentioned Venus because I thought it was ironic that the book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” (written by a male I think) used her name and that SHE was the goddess of love. I assure you that this is about as far as I like to delve into Greek or Roman mythology. I prefer true history.
Nathan, I had to comment on what you wrote. You are correct and I'm sorry for not clarifying my position a bit better. Everyone does deserve romance. It's a bit refreshing to read Kameron's, your's and Jonathan's comments that men want romance too. When I said "not all men", it is your type to which I was referring. Obviously you three are some of the good guys. With that being said, I still hold my views on romance - we need more romance, women AND men. This whole conversation started with why we, women like Twilight so much - and truly, that is one of the reasons why, but not the only reason. Another reason I think is that Edward is a gentleman. That says more about his character. I will write more on this after I address Teri’s comments.
Teri, I like your comments, and you hit upon what I've been trying to say. You said "to be romantic in all aspects of life would mean that all areas of life can be imbued with romance, and theoretically then, even the days that are less than shiny bright would have the lift and lilt of knowing one is loved and cherished". YES! This is more the gist of what I’m trying to say. This multi-blog discussion started with explaining why women like Edward. And yes, an anonymous poster said that the book was written for women, by a woman. Maybe that’s where we got our wires crossed. I believe the three of you took my comments to mean men were essentially at fault in the world today. I was simply explaining how this book emphasized one specific point (male/female relations) in a much broader issue (people/people relations). Somehow this became a male/female bashing competition. My whole point of this explanation to you was, no matter how flawed the characters may be (it’s fiction, Jonathan… and who isn’t flawed anyways), I’d like to explain to you that Edward is a gentleman, and it’s who he is that makes him romantic, not how much he confesses his love or how hot he is – plenty of love confessions (HA HA! many false) and hotness in the world today. Those qualities we are not lacking. You may find him brooding, I find him cautious and conscientious. He’s battling his inner demons – who would be happy about that? I believe he embodies Teri’s comment. I’d like to expand her point a little bit by saying that it’s not just loved ones who can benefit. For example: when I’m at the grocery store, and a man holds the door open for me, isn’t that romantic? Yes it is! Does there have to be love involved? No. Just what Teri said – my day is better having been treated well by another human being. How about when a man is driving down the road, and he flips the bird at a woman who makes a mistake in traffic. We’re not going to even get into fault here because we’ve all made mistakes and can you honestly say that this woman made her traffic error on purpose? Is his gesture romantic? Does that speak of good manners on the man’s part? I can tell you as a mother of an adult male, if my son ever did that to a woman, he’d get a good chewing out from me. Do we need this kind of behavior in our lives? Does it truly serve a purpose other than to vent his top? No. Now as I have tried to be fair saying it’s not MAN’s fault, I’m going to say that the same can be said of a woman. While men hold the expected chores of door holding, chair holding, other general manners, etc., women express the same care in different ways. When a woman makes an effort to show compassion (very broad definition, I know) to another person, you, a child, etc., isn’t that romantic? But when you encounter a woman who is screaming at her child, or swearing at someone, don’t we all pause and say to ourselves “WOW!”… and not in a good way? We can all do with more manners than the few taught in the current times. Just a few simple examples, but you get my drift. So Jonathan, you state women will try to be romantic only because they need it reciprocated to them? I ask you, don’t we all need to be treated in this broad romantic fashion? I can certainly say I do not need to be treated poorly.
Kameron, (who are you, by the way? Another of my cousins?) I have to say I’m disappointed to hear your opinion that WOMEN are not romantic. Your paintbrush paints a wide swath there. Not true. Perhaps some women, but most I’ve met are fairly conscientious and romantic, with the exception of the spoiled few. I have not been around much romance in my life, but it has never stopped me from continuously showing appreciation, or treating people well. It has nothing to do with whether or not I receive it in return from said persons – it’s just who I am. I do stuff for people because it makes me happy to make them happy. Often, I am the one holding the door for a strange man. Even an old, physically unattractive strange man. Seems odd, of course, but I do it because I think any man deserves to reap the same benefits. Why not? We females wanted equal treatment right? This did not mean we wanted to be treated like a man (like is happening every day all over the world), but it does mean that we have to reciprocate to our male counterparts when they have shown appreciation. Am I romantic? Yes! Is it noticed? Depends on who’s day I’m lifting. And I harken back to my original point. Manners. You know, I find it interesting that it is those who were raised with good manners that are the ones who appreciate my gestures.
I think I’ve come full circle back to the original topic. Twilight works as a novel because of the relationship between the characters. Edward is a gentleman, and Bella is equally nice as well. It’s a New York Times Bestseller – it didn’t get that way from just teenage girls. The numbers speak for themselves. But Jonathan, I have explained to you that you don’t get it. And you know what? I’ve had a flash of intuition into why you don’t get it… You’re a man. You don’t have the experience to understand. Now before you jump on me, let me explain. You will never experience what a woman experiences when it comes to male/female relations, simply because you aren’t subject to the same type of relation. For example, I seriously doubt you’d ever expect a man to hold out your chair for you. Or get your coat. Or bring you flowers to show appreciation. But women, well, we know what has been done in the past, and I’m going to tell you that my experience is that these old fashioned mannerisms are rarely seen anymore. So Jonathan, in this paragraph I’m talking manners between a man and a woman. The door holding of course is a hold out – a simple courtesy that has for the most part survived. However, even this simple courtesy is sometimes forgotten – I have had many men ignore me when coming through a door - even while holding a squirming child in my arms. Jonathan, your mama taught you well. Like I said before, not all men today lack manners – I am sure you are one of the remaining who does show proper courtesy. Bill Cosby is known for making controversial comments regarding bad parenting in black society contributing to delinquency of their children, and not the government – I’d like to grasp the basis of that thought (parenting) and apply it to all society, both sexes, and all persons regardless of relationship. Parents need to teach better manners. We should treat each other better. I’d love to meet an Edward on every corner. Polite, well-spoken, and generally old-fashioned. Remember when he made sure he was formally introduced to Bella’s father? Who is doing that anymore? We should be!
I end this with one of my original statements from your original Vampire! Blog: “Every little step our gender takes towards equality, well a little bit more romance is lost along the way. We want that romance, we crave the romance of days gone by, and I think males the world over might consider this a tiny wake up call to harken back to old-fashioned mannerism minus the sexism of days gone by.” Regardless of how badly women may have been treated in Greek times, or Roman times, or the 1800’s, or the 1500’s, etc., I think it’s safe to say that throughout time, “Polite Society” has maintained the same manners – and today, well, it’s just not as prevalent. Either that, or there is less “Polite Society”. I’m not blaming men because many, many women (think some 70’s feminists), in their quest to be equal, threw away anything and everything that smacked of difference. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pinched on the backside by men who think it’s socially acceptable. Is this the equivalent of a “good job” pat on the butt during a football game? Well, no thank you. I respectfully decline. So folks, what old fashioned mannerism would you like to bring back if you could pick just one??? Seriously! I’d like to know! Past them in the comments below please...
I’d like to end this with a note that I do not think that I am perfect, and I too suffer from the effects of GenX (we were rude too)! I am trying to overcome my personal failings and continue to struggle with adopting better manners every day I exist.
Can we end this male/female bashing and just move on to people should treat each other better?
Game over!
